The following is an interview that took place on August 18th 2011 between an investigator (I) and a strong (but fair) believer in the existence of ghosts! (B)
Given a rather lengthy argument across email they met for the following discussion:
I: Hi thankyou for meeting up with me today….
B: no problem
I: so for the sake of the tape I will explain what has brought us together today…….to start I posted a post on Facebook stating the impossibility of the paranormal, this lead to a rather heated discussion with yourself about the existence of the paranormal
B: yea that’s correct
I: so after a multitude of comment replies we took that argument to emails and this continued on over a few days until we agreed to meet up face to face to discuss in detail our views on the paranormal
B: uh hmm!
I: so to start I’ll mention your comment that said and I quote “you people disgust me, proof of the paranormal is all around us you just have to be open to it to experience it!”
B: Yea quite literally everywhere
I: ok so can you explain everywhere
B: well…what I mean is if you open your eyes to what happens around us so often, you will experience hundreds of paranormal experiences
I: but can you explain what you mean by everywhere?
B: yea in your house or your place of work, when driving around………just in your everyday life!
I: ok so what type of experiences are you talking about?
B: well full bodied apparitions, hearing voices, objects moving on there own…..like poltergeists and stuff……..
I: don’t you think that could all be psychological though? Just a kind of reaction to wanting these things to exist?
B: no these “things” exist, I have witnessed them on many occasions
I: that’s fair enough but don’t you feel these can be explained by psychological reactions to your environment? Has anyone else witnessed them with you?
B: yes my partner has seen things moving around the house!
I: did you see them moving?
B: yes but this time my partner saw it first
I: ok so have you got more detail of the situation? Like which room? What moved? Was anyone else other than your partner present?
B: yes we were relaxing in the living room just the two of us and the TV remote fell off the arm of the chair
I: and at what point did you see the object move on it’s own?
B: well I didn’t particularly see it move but my partner saw it move then fall off the arm of the chair……
I: so you didn’t actually see anything happen?
B: no but my partner wouldn’t lie???
I: that’s not what I’m saying, I’m saying YOU didn’t see it happen
B: well…. no….. but I heard it hit the floor and my partner hadn’t moved at all
I: ok so how did you know that your partner hadn’t moved? I assume you weren’t looking in that direction or you would have seen the remote move at the same time?
B: well we were watching the TV so we had no reason to move
I: so what about this experience is actually paranormal?
B: Well an object moved on it’s own! We have a poltergeist in our house these things happen all the time
I: so this has happened before? Can you give me some more examples?
B: yes a picture frame flew across the room one night as me and my partner were arguing! We were shouting in the bedroom and the picture flew towards me as she pointed at me!
I: ok so why do think that happened?
B: well obviously, I read somewhere that poltergeists are created by someone emotional in the house and given the fact my wife was angry she must have wanted the picture to hit me and to add to it, it was a picture of her father that passed away a few years before!!!
I: don’t you feel this could be coincidence?
B: definitely not! Tell me how a photo frame can fly across a room? All the windows were closed? We were the only ones in the house at the time???? By F*ck I could explain it! I doubt you really could!
I: ok but first I would need more details! How far did the photo frame “fly”?
B: about 6 ft?!?
I: was that about 6ft through the air or did it land about 6ft away?
B: what’s this got to do with anything?
I: honestly, just stick with me on this one! Was it through the air or was that it’s landing distance?
B: that was it’s landing distance I suppose
I: and how far away were you and your partner?
B: well it nearly reached me so probably just over 6ft
I: did you see the photo frame fly through the air?
B: well…..yea it come off the wall!
I: ok but what I mean is, at what point did you become aware that the photo frame was moving?
B: well when It flew towards me!!
I: yes but was it in midair? was it landing????
B: it was landing!
I: so you didn’t see it “flying” so to speak
B: well yea how else would it have got there???
I: but you didn’t witness it flying you only witnessed it landing?
B: this is the problem with people like you! You just want to disprove this stuff at any cost!
I: actually I want to help explain this stuff
B: well you are not doing any explaining!!!
I: ok so do you want my opinion?
B: go on then?
I: well I reckon and I’ll have to assume some points! From what you have told me, is that the photo frame came off of its hook whilst you were arguing! I realise that when someone points in an argument that it is usually a way of pushing there point across! I assume you were standing up?
I: so if she was to point at you she would have stepped forward? Even slightly?
B: uh huh!
I: then considering the heated mood anyway she would have stepped forward with some force which made the frame fall off of the wall!
B: I’m not being funny mate but my partner isn’t the biggest of women and certainly couldn’t make a frame fly off a wall from one stamp
I: we don’t know it flew!
B: we do…..why else would it land at my feet?
I: well that could be one of 2 things either it slid down the wall hit a skirting board and slid across the floor or the distance wasn’t as far as you remember and it simply fell off the wall
B: how do you mean I know what I saw!
I: ok fair enough I agree that you think you know what you saw! But I also disagree that you know what you are seeing!
B: what are you saying?
I: I’m saying that twice already in this discussion we have discovered you have seen things that you actually haven’t
B: you what?
I: well firstly you saw the remote fall off the arm of the chair? Secondly you saw the picture frame “fly” across the room? These 2 points alone say to me that…….
B: I’m a liar!
I: no not that you are a liar I am far from saying that! What I am saying is that you have misinterpreted that situation and created memories that make it fit to what you want to have happened! Overtime this becomes the memory of the situation!
B: Yea ok
I: so I reckon all that really happened was the picture fell of its hook and given the fact you already feel that a poltergeist is in the house and your want for the paranormal to be real, that you filled the gaps with misinterpretations in order to suit what worked for you! Do you understand? I’m not calling you a liar your more a victim of our own circumstance!
B: Yea I get it when I look back on it properly it wasn’t so fantastic! but then how do you explain seeing full apparitions? I’ve seen loads and I can’t just make up those memories!
I have seen faces and clothing and everything!
I: well you can, It depends on the situations you are in at the time! When you say full apparitions?
B: like a full person stood in front of me! Eyes, face, everything!
I: ok so narrow it down, give me an example?
B: ok one night I was cycling back from work through a lane and I felt really strange like I was being watched, then a woman appeared in front of me so I slammed on my brakes as I looked down then back up she has vanished!
I: scary stuff what did she look like?
B: yea! Certainly scared the hell out of me I even turned the bike around and went another way home!
I: what did she look like though?
B: she was wearing a small white dress like she had been out clubbing or something!
I: what about her face?
B: well she was young, like in her 20′s, like early 20′s she wasn’t looking at me she was looking down!
I: ok so what colour hair? Shoes? Did she have a handbag? Was there anything about that dress that stood out?
B: well like I say I slammed my brakes on then looked down and she was gone!
I: yea but you explained that it was a full apparition?
B: it was I can picture it
I: ok so go into detail?
B: I have!
I: well you’ve mentioned a white dress, young, maybe early 20′s anything else?
B: well it was dark but I could see her
I: how did you see her? Like see through her or was she solid like I am in front of you now?
B: she was kind of see through like a mist but with shape! The weird thing is when I got home I told my wife straight away and she said that a young girl had been killed down there a while back! So I looked it up and my wife was right!
I: that’s interesting, what did you find out?
B: well she had been out with friends on a night out and was walking home, they found her in hedge down there they said someone had strangled her!
I: so what, do you think that you saw that girl?
B: I know I saw that girl I haven’t been through there since! Haha
I: so getting back onto her description what did you see?
B: well I saw a young girl in a white dress!
I: was she wearing makeup?, did you see her eyes? was she holding anything? Hair colour?
B: I can’t remember exactly like I said I got out of there pretty quickly
I: fair enough so now that you are thinking about it, what did you actually see?
I: when you think back to that moment, you are riding your bike down that alley, it he apparition appears in front of you what did you see?
B: well a white mist shape?!?
I: yep, what else?
B: not a lot more if I am honest
I: so what made you think it was a girl?
B: I’m not sure it was small and petite I suppose I just put 2 and 2 together!
I: do you see what I mean about filling in the gaps?
B: uh huh
I: over time after you have had the experience that has spooked you, There is a massive chance that you either over heard your wife mention the girl being murdered or mentioning it directly to you, after all that’s not something that goes under the radar especially not in your local area! It just probably didn’t even go through your head until that moment you rode down there in the dark, it’s probably what made you feel uncomfortable all of a sudden then you witnessed this small mist, be it dust or fog….I assume it was at least a little windy?
I: so it you easily could of been dust or fog! By the time you had pulled yourself together you had already already connected the dots to the poor girl who was murdered down there? By the time you told the story the connection was made and by the time you had looked it up you knew she was early 20′s and the chances are the news report mentioned her in a white dress or a picture would have been of her in a white dress?
B: you’ve got a point, the picture was her in a white dress I remember because it shook me up even more!
I: so what happened that was paranormal?
B: I’m not sure to be honest?!?
I: it’s probably a similar situation for most of your paranormal experiences, it’s just over time you have convinced yourself of the reality of them!
B: I don’t know to be honest, haven’t you ever had a paranormal experience
I: yes I have had lots until I really dug in deep and realised where I made the connections
B: I’ll agree to disagree
I: that’s fine I’m just glad I have managed to show you that not everything is paranormal, my eyes are open to the paranormal but they are just not looking in the same direction! You never know, you may even be able to ride down that alley again haha
B: haha yea not too sure about that one!……But then what about all of the evidence of it though like photos and videos out there? They are real not some mind game!
I: I was waiting for this one, most of the evidence out there is created to achieve something!
B: like what? What can you achieve from a video?
I: well put it this way if your business is running dry or you need to attract people to an area what better than a good old ghost story!
B: well that doesn’t explain the evidence!
I: well it does, it’s all to easy to fake evidence on a photo or a camera, universities use similar techniques to teach animation students!
One video can gain world wide interest! Put it this way, 2 words – Hampton Court!
B: well yea I suppose, it can’t all be faked though?……
I: no I’m not saying it is, I’m saying a good portion is! The rest is similar to the experiences you have had, someone films or takes a photo of something they don’t understand and well…….if they are thinking paranormal then that’s what it becomes, they will even fight tooth and nail to ensure it stays paranormal!
B: yea you’ve got a point but I’m not convinced
I: that’s fair enough, like I said I’m just glad we could talk this through instead of argue it out online!
This shows a pretty good example of how 2 different thinkers work in different situations!
Within the paranormal there is a lot of misconceptions as I have mentioned before in my blog, your belief and goals make a huge difference to your perceptions when on an investigation!
Keep this in mind when out there gathering evidence or conducting research! Not everything is paranormal and take time to really think back to moments that you believe might be!
The desire to believe should never overcome the desire for the objective truth!
This is a fictional interview written to emulate the hundreds of discussions I have had with outright believers